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18. 08 2008

[00:00:19] <tux21b> mitsuhiko, but you haven't answered my question. when do you follow? *g*
[00:00:51] <mitsuhiko> tux21b: hopefully soon ;)
[00:01:12] <mitsuhiko> not that i don't trust my code ^^
[00:01:41] <tux21b> hmm, but you don't want to provide migrations as long as you are not using it, right? ;)
[00:03:21] * rocky makes mitsuhiko's blog have a catastrophic meltdown so he's forced to switch to tp
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[02:58:50] <thatch> birkenfeld: pong... I'll be here around 14h from now
[03:02:39] * rocky is now known as rocky|away
[03:08:47] * dennda will migrate to textpress soon, too
[03:09:00] <dennda> I have already two plugins in mind I want to write
[03:09:33] <dennda> and SoC ends in 18 hours and I will be freeee again! freeeee like a biiiird! :-)
[03:11:00] * brian throws dennda into cage
[03:12:28] <dennda> dammit :'(
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[12:14:06] <asmodai> now
[12:14:12] <asmodai> that's nifty: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_o2P8f2uamuU/SKS1ebEYFQI/AAAAAAAAAsQ/iPDiDTHYaHc/s1600-h/New_British_Coinage_2008.jpg
[12:15:04] <mitsuhiko> asmodai: i hate british coins
[12:15:07] <mitsuhiko> they make no sense at all
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[12:16:01] <maze> they should just use Euro's
[12:16:16] <maze> and stop pretending they're special
[12:16:42] <asmodai> hahaha
[12:16:50] <asmodai> mitsuhiko: they make sense in an imperial design
[12:16:54] <asmodai> mitsuhiko: God shave the Queen!
[12:17:16] <mitsuhiko> why in gods name is a 2 pence about the same in size as a 50 pence coin, however a 5 pence one is smaller than one euro cent?
[12:17:33] <maze> it's true that it's better to have an imperial pint than a metric one
[12:17:35] <mitsuhiko> that's ridiculous
[12:18:33] <maze> and why is there no 2 GBP coin?
[12:18:57] <asmodai> there is
[12:19:00] <asmodai> just not on the photo
[12:19:06] <asmodai> since it didn't change
[12:19:17] <maze> aha
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[12:19:37] <maze> it still feels like being in the middle-ages having to change money when flying to the UK
[12:19:45] <asmodai> heh
[12:20:23] <maze> hell, even in Hungary they accept Euro's at more places
[12:20:51] <maze> London, Cardiff, etc. are also fine, but for example in Cambridge it's suddenly a problem
[12:34:34] <xorAxAx> at some places you probably want to avoid using euros
[12:34:49] <xorAxAx> otherwise somebody will wage war at you
[12:35:20] <xorAxAx> esp. if you are dealing oil
[12:47:37] <mitsuhiko> it's astonishing how they can continue using those ridiculous imperial units even though they have the metric system for more than 15 years...
[12:49:15] <xorAxAx> huh
[12:49:18] <xorAxAx> its much worse in the US
[12:51:18] <asmodai> mitsuhiko: At least Ireland made the switch
[12:53:17] <mitsuhiko> xorAxAx: what is worse?
[12:53:29] <mitsuhiko> the us don't have the metric system
[12:53:38] <mitsuhiko> the uk does
[12:53:54] <xorAxAx> mitsuhiko: well, good point, still bad to have any non-metric system
[12:54:33] <mitsuhiko> yeah
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[15:39:22] <rocky> here in eastern canada there is still more imperial unit use then i'd like... fortunately it's mostly the older generation (schools can't use imperial)
[15:42:52] <prencher> mitsuhiko - at the point yet where you maintain schema migration sql for new releases of tp?
[15:47:19] * dennda would like to know that, too
[15:47:36] * rocky woud like to know that too
[15:48:30] <asmodai> http://www.reddit.com/comments/6wsz4/this_is_what_you_get_for_hating_perl/
[15:53:11] <aa_> prencher, dennda, rocky: perhaps at 1.0?
[15:53:21] <rocky> yuck ;)
[15:53:42] <aa_> perhaps 0.1
[15:53:46] * dennda wants that now :-6
[15:53:53] <aa_> dennda: then write it :)
[15:54:00] <dennda> I am not sql-savvy
[15:54:12] <aa_> use one of the new sqla migration tools?
[15:56:20] <rocky> did something recently (as in last couple weeks) change regarding teh schema ?
[15:56:21] <rocky> *the
[15:57:01] <aa_> no, there has only bee one incompatible change AFAIK
[15:57:08] <aa_> and that was a couple of months ago
[15:57:27] <rocky> great :)
[15:57:34] <aa_> "AFAIK"
[15:57:41] <aa_> I don't keep track of dev at the moment
[15:57:49] <aa_> I use a very old, but very stable version
[15:57:57] <aa_> (before mitsuhiko took a knife to it)
[15:58:42] <rocky> haha
[15:59:07] <rocky> everyone i show textpress too (in the python community) talk about how amazing it is and ask why they've never heard of it ;)
[15:59:49] <prencher> well it's unlikely there will be any sort of big userbase without migration for upgrades
[16:00:20] <rocky> step #1 is doing a release and supporting that release ;)
[16:00:34] <dennda> it's not a question "if migration is ever supported", but "when" it is
[16:02:03] <aa_> perhaps these days something like a document db would be a much better solution for a blog
[16:02:16] <aa_> and then forget about migrations and schemas and all that crap
[16:02:58] <rocky> sql migration isn't so bad as long as you do it when you make the sql changes
[16:03:45] <rocky> and i believe that data stores that don't take into account "structure" changes that need to be migrated are doom to keep no-longer-used crap indefinitely (/me can say that from experience with the zodb)
[16:03:52] <rocky> *doomed
[16:06:46] <aa_> rocky: yeah, perhaps
[16:08:10] <prencher> just do like ronny, aa_.. start advocating storing everything in hg
[16:08:43] <aa_> prencher: that's actually the first sensible idea I have ever heard come from your fingertips
[16:10:09] <prencher> that makes one more sensible idea than you, then
[16:12:39] <ronny> oO
[16:18:33] <aa_> prencher: so true
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[18:07:30] <mitsuhiko> empty: i somehow have the feeling everytime i say something about the template engine in #django-dev everybody ignores me :-/
[18:07:56] <empty> they do mitsuhiko :)
[18:08:34] <empty> but the thread thing is big
[18:08:46] <empty> i mean i wouldn't want reprocessing each time.
[18:08:48] <empty> render
[18:10:16] <mitsuhiko> it's pretty strange because everybody says "templates are not the bottleneck", yet django spends most time in the parsing and evaluation loop of templates
[18:10:31] <mitsuhiko> and i wouldn't want to see the threading problems in django 1.0
[18:10:32] <empty> the same thing was true of rails.
[18:10:46] <empty> probably still is, haven't checked in a while
[18:13:44] <mitsuhiko> well. erb is a piece of strange, strange code :)
[18:14:03] <mitsuhiko> it has the quality of web2py's template engine
[18:16:12] <mitsuhiko> i really wonder why nobody replaced erb in rails so far
[18:16:25] <mitsuhiko> hmm. actually i think they did
[18:17:11] <prencher> mitsuhiko - well their loss, really.. i mean theres plenty of evidence to point at the template engine as the biggest bottleneck in django
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[18:18:36] <mitsuhiko> guess i'll try to wire up a patch for it later that day
[18:18:36] <mitsuhiko> off now
[18:18:47] <prencher> patch for what mitsuhiko?
[18:18:54] <mitsuhiko> django's template engine
[18:18:57] <aa_> make-django-nice.diff
[18:19:09] <aa_> 7 lines of code by mitsuhiko
[18:19:24] <mitsuhiko> 5000 lines delete and from jinja2 import * or what? :)
[18:19:29] <prencher> +hg clone http://dev.pocoo.org/hg/jinja2-main
[18:19:43] <aa_> <cough>ashammer
[18:19:57] <aa_> ok I took it too faqr, didn't I
[18:20:09] <prencher> whats ash ammer
[18:20:25] * aa_ whistles
[18:22:16] <prencher> at the moment its more work to use glashammer than just using the apis directly :/
[18:23:17] <apollo13> mitsuhiko: just reading the backlog, what have you been trying to explain in django-dev?
[18:23:48] <mitsuhiko> apollo13: that django's template engine is not thread safe in at least two places
[18:23:54] <mitsuhiko> one is cycle and the other one block
[18:24:01] <apollo13> isn't that well known?
[18:24:17] <apollo13> ah I see oO no response
[18:24:20] <mitsuhiko> apollo13: guess so, they are reparsing the templates each rendering
[18:24:22] <apollo13> typical
[18:24:26] <mitsuhiko> but that's ridiculous
[18:24:29] <apollo13> be with us or be against us
[18:24:57] <mitsuhiko> holy crap: http://java.sun.com/j2se/javadoc/writingdoccomments/index.html#curly
[18:25:06] <mitsuhiko> are people actually using ms word for java development? Oo
[18:25:16] <apollo13> btw you could write up those issues on lucumur
[18:25:27] <apollo13> you are still in the django community section, aren't you?
[18:25:37] <prencher> apollo13 - django has too strong a 'not invented here' mentality unfortunately
[18:25:47] <prencher> unless one of the core developers goes and greenlights something.. seems like not much happens
[18:25:53] <apollo13> prencher: yeah the best example is the orm I think
[18:26:25] <prencher> apollo13 - i have no issues with them having their own apis.. i actually think thats a good thing
[18:26:36] <apollo13> well in some cases yes
[18:26:46] <prencher> but there seems no interest in e.g. replacing the tempalting engine with a proper one.. rather than the mess of regexp & co they have now
[18:27:14] <prencher> if i recall, djangos templating could actually be implemented on top of jinja2's awesome runtime with fair ease
[18:27:18] <apollo13> hmm, I talked with jacob about this once
[18:27:20] <prencher> would have to ask mitsuhiko
[18:27:47] <apollo13> well template tags modifing the context could be a problem as jinja2 is compiling it
[18:28:06] <apollo13> but yeah mitsuhik​o really knows it better...
[18:28:43] <prencher> someone just needs to make an admin system on top of sqlalch and wsgi
[18:28:49] <prencher> and we'd be rolling
[18:29:28] <mitsuhiko> apollo13: even that would work as long as the template tags know at compile time which variables they set
[18:29:44] <mitsuhiko> {% load %} would take some work to implement though
[18:30:15] <apollo13> well you got import too, I don't think load would cause problems
[18:30:44] <mitsuhiko> apollo13: currently jinja has no concept of supporting per template filters or per template extensions
[18:31:00] <mitsuhiko> that could be changed of course, but i don't want to do it myself because i don't like the idea of that
[18:31:08] <apollo13> I see
[18:31:13] <aa_> mitsuhiko: you could have some special context variables
[18:31:19] <aa_> or is that too hacky
[18:31:20] <apollo13> but it's just a change, it wouldn't be such a problem
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[18:47:44] <asmodai> Kaelten: When you are around again, any addon that you know of (preferably within Ace) that shows the quiver bag in numbers over 999 as well? I remember one doing 1.1k or so
[18:48:11] <asmodai> mitsuhiko: where did you hide birkenfeld?
[18:49:09] <Kaelten> asmodai: I think OneBag did
[18:49:24] <asmodai> Kaelten: Mmm, perhaps something else is overriding it
[18:49:25] <apollo13> genious: http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2008/08/17/10-futuristic-user-interfaces/
[18:49:28] <asmodai> I get * at the moment
[18:49:37] <asmodai> Kaelten: oh btw, <3 for OneBag/OneBank
[18:49:37] <Kaelten> hrm
[18:49:46] <Kaelten> thanks :)
[18:49:53] <Kaelten> working on a new version for WotLK
[18:50:01] <asmodai> Kaelten: you in the beta?
[18:50:06] <Kaelten> *nods*
[18:50:17] <asmodai> Kaelten: ah nice
[18:50:26] <asmodai> Kaelten: I noticed with recent patches they added a ton of UI refinement
[18:50:27] <asmodai> s
[18:50:38] <Kaelten> ya tons of stuff has changed.
[18:50:46] <asmodai> Most for the better
[18:50:51] <Kaelten> ya
[18:50:52] <asmodai> Haven't played in about a year now
[18:51:05] <asmodai> Seems Blizzard is learning still ;)
[18:51:51] <asmodai> Kaelten: at one point I was working on this: http://www.in-nomine.org/~asmodai/wowapi/wowapi.html
[18:52:07] <asmodai> Autogenerate the entire inheritance tree for the API.
[18:52:29] <Kaelten> asmodai: I helped co-author this : http://www.amazon.com/World-Warcraft-Programming-Reference-Creating/dp/0470229810/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1211233359&sr=8-1
[18:52:49] <asmodai> oh wow
[18:52:56] <asmodai> didn't even know there was a book
[18:52:59] <Kaelten> :)
[18:53:04] <Kaelten> came out a few months back
[18:53:21] <asmodai> hahaha, LFG cover
[18:53:21] <asmodai> nice
[18:53:25] <prencher> a fecking book for an addon api? oh dear
[18:53:35] <asmodai> prencher: WoW is big business.
[18:53:39] <Kaelten> prencher: :P
[18:53:56] <prencher> asmodai - indeed it is, still that suprises me
[18:54:03] <Kaelten> its had pretty decent sales so far
[18:54:10] <Kaelten> publisher is talking about a second edition
[18:54:11] <asmodai> Kaelten: I remember the API changing pretty often with the patches though.
[18:54:20] <Kaelten> yep, thus my last statement
[18:54:29] * asmodai nods
[18:54:51] <asmodai> Kaelten: but it seems most niches are already filled
[18:55:03] <apollo13> oO wow programming, yet another way to get banned?
[18:55:12] <asmodai> apollo13: Why? It's Lua. :D
[18:55:14] <asmodai> Lua's schweet
[18:55:22] <prencher> Kaelten - are they doing anything significant with the ui in wotlk?
[18:55:44] <asmodai> prencher: http://www.wowwiki.com/Patch_3.0.1
[18:55:58] <apollo13> asmodai: sure it is, but I know of some people getting banned, just because of using the api in a way blizard didn't like
[18:56:06] <asmodai> Heh, builtin GroupCalendar ey
[18:56:20] <Kaelten> apollo13: there are very few addons that could get people banned
[18:56:26] <asmodai> apollo13: Oh sorry, I thought you meant the channel
[18:56:46] <apollo13> Kaelten: yeah but it's fun getting banned through testing your own work ;)
[18:56:48] <Kaelten> generally speaking anything that you can do in lua is legit, even if frowned upon
[18:56:55] <asmodai> Kaelten: the main API coder @ blizz is quite openminded -- can't remember his bleedin' name though
[18:56:58] <apollo13> of course they did something wrong, but they don't know what
[18:57:14] <Kaelten> asmodai: if yer refering to slouken, he's not actually on that team, hehe.
[18:57:19] <asmodai> eh?
[18:57:21] <asmodai> slouken isn't?
[18:57:25] <Kaelten> apollo13: I doubt that.
[18:57:29] <asmodai> I always thought he was :|
[18:57:43] <asmodai> He's just a sockpuppet for the real devs? ;)
[18:57:44] <Kaelten> asmodai: no, I forget his exact title. he's a good guy though, met him a few times.
[18:58:05] <Kaelten> I think he was more involved near the beginning
[18:58:05] <apollo13> Kaelten: doubt it, or whatever you want, I know it first hand... (but that obviously doesn't make the api bad)
[18:58:46] <asmodai> Kaelten: ah ok
[18:58:51] <Kaelten> apollo13: what where you/they testing?
[18:59:01] <asmodai> Kaelten: anyway, I still want to create a good online reference.
[18:59:11] <Kaelten> asmodai: wowprogramming.com :)
[18:59:35] <apollo13> Kaelten: I don't know exactly I never really played wow
[18:59:50] <Kaelten> ah, so not first hand ;)
[19:00:22] <prencher> render = web.template.render('templates/'); render.index(foo) .. web.py is so obscure
[19:01:11] <apollo13> Kaelten: lol, to be honest I wan't really interested in it, it just poped up as you mentioned the api
[19:01:46] <Kaelten> prencher: I had a friend checking out webpy I told him to look at werkzeug instead
[19:01:56] <prencher> good lad
[19:02:06] * aa_ sneezes
[19:02:19] <Kaelten> hehe
[19:02:21] <Kaelten> I am so sick of html
[19:02:40] <prencher> still better than writing ui code =(
[19:02:51] <aa_> oh I disagree
[19:02:58] <aa_> UI is way nicer
[19:02:58] <asmodai> Kaelten: jeez, someone finally did it
[19:03:18] <asmodai> Kaelten: last reference I knew was some wiki, I think wowwiki or something similar
[19:03:21] <asmodai> horribly outdated
[19:03:46] <Kaelten> ya wowwiki
[19:03:57] <Kaelten> asmodai: wowprogramming is the books companion website. :)
[19:04:08] <asmodai> if Xparky is actually expecting /Xparky (if I read it well), then I'll kill it
[19:04:10] <Kaelten> basically an overglorified errata
[19:04:11] <asmodai> Kaelten: ahhh, that explains
[19:04:28] <asmodai> errata is good
[19:04:35] * prencher looks for Kaelten hidden "powered by curse" agenda on the site
[19:04:44] <Kaelten> lol
[19:04:51] <Kaelten> nope not on wowprogramming.
[19:05:06] <Kaelten> on a side note, wowprogramming.com is written in lua
[19:05:12] <prencher> hehe
[19:05:18] <prencher> what, LuaCGI?
[19:05:52] <Kaelten> some sort of standard thats aparently somewhat based on wsgi
[19:05:52] <prencher> wow, nice login error message "You must be logged in to edit a page! Try again!"
[19:05:54] <prencher> that makes...no sense
[19:06:36] <prencher> interesting.. never heard of that for lua
[19:06:42] <prencher> is the forum lua based too?
[19:06:47] <Kaelten> ya
[19:06:59] <Kaelten> jim used sputnik as the basis
[19:08:01] <Kaelten> http://sputnik.freewisdom.org/
[19:08:03] * asmodai kicks Xparky
[19:09:01] <asmodai> Kaelten: to find the / command, I needed to look for something starting with 'slash' or is it that options thing nowadays?
[19:09:57] <Kaelten> here it is wsapi
[19:09:57] <Kaelten> http://wsapi.luaforge.net/
[19:10:08] <Kaelten> influenced by ruby's rack and pythons wsgi
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[19:11:37] <prencher> Kaelten - that looks quite nice
[19:12:17] <Kaelten> prencher: ya, its interesting, hehe
[19:12:34] <prencher> same old issue with lua though.. lack of pythons stdlib
[19:15:14] <ronny> pythons stdlib aint that nice
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[19:16:40] <prencher> stdlib and cheeseshop and you have pretty much everything you'll ever need... particularly compared to lua thats huge
[19:17:10] <asmodai> ok, so leguin.freenode just died under my ass
[19:17:17] <prencher> indeed it did
[19:17:22] <prencher> lose some weight kiddo
[19:20:17] <asmodai> :P
[19:20:26] <asmodai> Pray I don't sit on you
[19:20:41] <prencher> i do
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[19:20:44] <prencher> every night before bed
[19:20:56] <apollo13> mitsuhiko: I looked at your apache performance post on lucumr now, what's the wsgi setup for that one? (how many processes/threads)
[19:20:58] <asmodai> Good
[19:20:59] <gbr> moin!
[19:21:09] <asmodai> prencher: if you're nice enough I'll sit on davidcramer for a change
[19:21:22] <prencher> ill code anything to make that happen
[19:22:26] <prencher> apollo13 - got a link for that post?
[19:22:41] <apollo13> prencher: http://lucumr.pocoo.org/cogitations/2007/09/30/pushing-apache-performance/
[19:24:59] <asmodai> Kaelten: how much do you know of bartender?
[19:25:22] <Kaelten> nev is a good friend of mine
[19:25:34] <asmodai> Kaelten: can an addon be coded to only support, say, bt3?
[19:26:09] <Kaelten> not sure what yer refering to
[19:26:52] <asmodai> Kaelten: well, this xparky has a 'create bar' function, but with bt4 it's not creating anything
[19:26:58] <asmodai> Kaelten: my best guess: version differences
[19:27:08] <Kaelten> ah, ya possible
[19:27:24] * apollo13 reminds himself to call his provider tomorrow, the performance really went down after switching to an unlimited plan, 0.4 secs lag for irc oO
[19:30:41] <asmodai> unlimited lag
[19:31:08] <apollo13> he
[19:31:46] <prencher> it's a feature apollo13
[19:31:49] <prencher> to make you more productive
[19:48:44] <apollo13> well, but cutting my internet would be cheaper and even more productive ;)
[19:51:35] <apollo13> hmm it seems as if there dns server is fucked up
[19:51:49] <apollo13> I think they didn't apply the latest bind update
[19:52:20] <apollo13> the source randomness caused some more cpu usage iirc
[19:52:42] <gbr> hey asmodai
[19:55:21] * asmodai ponders who gbr is
[19:56:12] <gbr> a riddle!
[19:57:00] <gbr> (like, ask me anything and you will be eaten up)
[19:58:12] <asmodai> Liek a Grue?
[19:58:15] <gbr> in any case, the three letters are meaningful
[19:59:23] <gbr> no, more like a Sphinx
[20:02:34] <gbr> asmodai: come on, it isn't hard :)
[20:05:16] <davidcramer> wait, sit on me
[20:05:16] <davidcramer> what'd i do
[20:07:51] <prencher> gbr - clearly it is green banana republican
[20:12:48] <gbr> :)
[20:12:50] <apollo13> or Germinated brown rice?
[20:12:54] <apollo13>
[20:12:58] <gbr> I wouldn't recommend eating green bananas
[20:13:10] <gbr> teeth tend to get stuck in them
[20:13:12] <apollo13> you tried?
[20:13:17] <apollo13> hehe
[20:13:27] <gbr> not exactly
[20:13:32] <gbr> but there are those "cooking bananas"
[20:13:44] <gbr> which look exactly like green standard bananas
[20:13:52] <apollo13> u, yeah I know them
[20:13:55] <apollo13> not a good idea
[20:14:13] <gbr> indeed
[20:15:23] <gbr> hm, maybe I've scared asmodai away
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[20:29:12] <asmodai> gbr: no
[20:29:15] <asmodai> gbr: one word: Strings
[20:29:16] <davidcramer> well time to try out
[20:29:18] <davidcramer> err
[20:29:20] <davidcramer> http://gruppler.dojotoolkit.org/
[20:29:22] <davidcramer> you guys seen this?
[20:29:38] <mq> Okay, I'm more or less back from vacation. Although I haven't slept for the past 36 hours.
[20:39:42] <maze> jay, incorporated a ansi->png renderer in textpress
[20:39:54] <gbr> asmodai: as in, fiddle?
[20:49:45] <asmodai> :)
[20:50:05] <asmodai> The scorpion part is nice
[21:01:58] <prencher> empty - nifty new twid site
[21:02:44] <empty> prencher: thanks. it needs a lot of work but it's a start
[21:03:06] <prencher> I would say it looks a wee bit generic, but not in a bad way
[21:04:02] <prencher> empty - built on anything specific, or just a custom django site?
[21:04:23] <empty> prencher: just django right now.
[21:04:32] <empty> the next phase will include bringing in pinax and building on that.
[21:04:40] <empty> but we didn't want to wait for beta stability.
[21:05:07] <prencher> hehe, the postback for comments with errors needs a *little* bit of styling ;)
[21:11:13] <ronny> url?
[21:12:31] <empty> prencher: ah
[21:12:34] <empty> thanks
[21:16:29] <mitsuhiko> empty: and i was hoping i could "sell" you textpress ;)
[21:17:49] <empty> hmm, that would be a hard sell. :D
[21:21:05] <empty> mitsuhiko: i got enough grief about using rails :)
[21:21:13] <empty> I might use textpress for my blog though.
[21:21:18] <empty> I want to look at it.
[21:21:27] <mitsuhiko> have you used mephisto before that?
[21:22:19] <mitsuhiko> empty: does mephisto have an export format=
[21:23:33] <empty> mitsuhiko: i'm using mephisto now
[21:23:41] <empty> for my blog
[21:36:03] <asmodai> so, when you have a class and you let another class inherit it. You then create an overriding method for your class, can you still call the superclass' method easily? I reckon with some super() construct, right?
[21:36:45] <mitsuhiko> asmodai: either ParentClass.method(self) or super(self, ThisClass).method()
[21:37:00] <mitsuhiko> actually super(ThisClass, self).method()
[21:41:31] <asmodai> mitsuhiko: which one would be nicer from a style point of view?
[21:42:12] <mitsuhiko> i don't know
[21:42:26] <mitsuhiko> people shoot me if i use the first one, others say i'm doing it wrong when chosing the second form
[21:42:45] <mitsuhiko> i think the first one is less harmful but doesn't do well with MI
[21:44:34] <asmodai> MI?
[21:44:36] <asmodai> ah
[21:44:40] <asmodai> multiple inheritance
[21:44:44] <asmodai> mmm, this is SI
[21:45:20] <empty> mitsuhiko: that always confused me as well.
[21:45:34] <ronny> just choose what you need, and document that you used exactly that
[21:45:45] <empty> That's the great thing about python, there's only one way to do something. err.
[21:45:47] <ronny> (and why)
[21:45:55] <mitsuhiko> the problem with super() is that it would work better if there python would have support for method overloading
[21:46:02] <mitsuhiko> so that super could select the best implementation
[21:46:57] <ronny> mitsuhiko: you mean stuff like method-combination in lisp?
[21:47:42] <mitsuhiko> ronny: i have no idea about lisp ;)
[21:48:09] <mitsuhiko> the problem is that when using super + MI it's nearly impossible to change the signature of a method
[21:49:39] <asmodai> gbr: Why the nickname change btw?
[21:49:40] <ronny> mitsuhiko: method combination means if 2 base classes got different methods of the same name that fit the combined arguments (each method handles a different part) of the current class, it invokes both
[21:49:50] <mitsuhiko> """
[21:49:50] <mitsuhiko> In Ubuntu Christian Edition the sin() function has been removed from libm."""
[21:49:51] <mitsuhiko> hahaha
[21:50:04] <ronny> lol
[21:50:11] <mitsuhiko> asmodai: apaprently he's still connected to his bouncer on one computer
[21:50:17] <mitsuhiko> or not
[21:51:18] <mitsuhiko> """In Ubuntu Christian Edition Novell's e-mail program has been renamed "Creation". """
[21:52:02] <ronny> mitsuhiko: method combination is one of those features that are very unlikely to ever hit a language like python
[21:53:06] <mitsuhiko> """Ubuntu Christian Edition's chmod doesn't allow 666 permission to be set. (tnx to Jonas)""" ^^
[21:54:44] <mitsuhiko> holy crap: http://www.ubuntume.com/
[21:54:51] <mitsuhiko> that's really getting out of hand
[21:56:06] <sebner> mitsuhiko: though many ubuntu -devs says that's good because maybe they find a bug which no one else has find before xD
[21:56:19] <mitsuhiko> http://www.jewbuntu.com/
[21:56:20] <mitsuhiko> Oo
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[21:57:38] <mitsuhiko> gosh. port is so slow
[21:57:45] <mitsuhiko> it's compiling mono since more than 4 hours
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[21:58:12] <sebner> mitsuhiko: that's long though it also needs here some time (10-20 minutes)
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[21:58:27] <